A reminder to make our knitting spaces friendly and kind. My LYS closed ( a big rent increase paired with an economy unfriendly to small businesses). I have found over the years that often yarn store regulars become very cliquish. I am a woman who looks like the knitters at the table, and am there to shop. I know from Black friends about the constant indignities they experience in yarn shops. My reminder to myself is to offer kindness to everyone I encounter in knitting spaces.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I hesitated a lot before writing this one. It is reassuring to hear some acknowledgement back from people who don't go through this themselves but are aware of the situation. Thank you!
My (Black) sister-in-law would invite me to come with her to shop at a local yarn store. The staff wouldn’t follow her around when she was with a white woman. That store has since closed.
There are often multiple reasons for a store closing but being unfriendly to a whole group of people who knit can be a pretty big reason a store doesn’t survive. I live in an area (Metropolitan Washington DC) and I still hear stories from people who are African American, biracial, of Indian ancestry - in other words, visibly not White, being made to feel unwelcome in this town. My son who is biracial just told me another story about this town last week. I told him how ironic that it was this specific community because historically the town was settled by Quakers.
That sounds like a familiar scenario, unfortunately. Common comments friends have reported include “ that yarn may be too expensive”, “I thought Black women only crocheted” and so on.
I teach art to elementary students. The other day a boy made an absolutely unacceptable racial comment in my room (a boy who himself needs lots of understanding due to his circumstances – thankfully my skilled administration will step in to support and guide him positively). As class was ending, I reinforced being always kind when a boy who recently moved from another country said 'Americans are mean.' My heart broke – no child should feel that way in our schools.
A mantra at our school is 'Be Kind,' but I'm going to make a poster for my art room that says 'Kindness First.' It puts a different spin on it. I'll share your personal experience of preconceived opinions to help illustrate this – your message will spread a little more, and a little more, and a little more...
Over the years I have learnt to direct the better part of my energy and attention to the younger people in my life rather than the others. It is hard work but also a privilege to reflect and grow alongside them. Thank you for the work you do. I am so humbled to know my story will play a little part in it. It is more than anything I could have asked for by writing this! Thank you.
This is why I always push back against the standard accepted wisdom that "all knitters are kind" Just because you share a hobby with someone it doesn't mean you share their values. Knitters are human with all of the traits that go along with that and sadly that means some knitters are racist, pure and simple. I like to think that eventually everyone will become, truly more inclusive but until then I don't think it benefits anyone to perpetuate this myth that all knitters are nice - the ones that aren't need to be told that.
Louise, thank you for speaking aloud about this. I truly appreciate how you regularly talk about so many of these things that seem so nice and harmless in the knitting world but are seriously harmful. Knitters are kind gets my goat too. I kept going to the first knitting group I mentioned for several years on and off. One of the scenes I would often witness is someone would offer a spare stitch marker or tapestry needle to someone else and refuse it to take it back, loudly protesting "Knitters are kind!" 🫣
I know what you mean. It almost feels as though if you have to keep repeatedly saying something then it might not be as true as you think 😂 Kindness can happen without it being an external performance or a kind of badge of honour.
Every yarn shop has its culture and even cliques. I say that as a 73 yo cis white woman in middle America. I have felt unwelcome is yarn shops. I’m sorry you have that experience as an obviously highly competent teacher of yarn crafting.
Thank you for your kind words. I see what you mean by cliques. I have noticed those too. Not everyone is immediately welcome. I hope you find comfortable places to work on what you love.
1: thank you so much for sharing this -- to me as a (white) transfemme it signals you're aware of what is going on, even if you're usually not talking about it here; that you're not shoving it into the corner of your mind, and to me, this feels safer
2: I hate that you feel compelled, that you too, are affected by this so much, that it is necessary to pull those vulnerable parts of yourself into the open.
If you like, I am sending a warm and gentle, cautious embrace across the sea to you.
I have many thoughts about care and attentiveness in knitting spaces, but tbh right now I am much too bitter and exhausted to write them down.
Let me just say that it's not an accident that I know exactly three transfeminine knitters (one of them is designer pufidoknits from Istanbul, they make gorgeous brioche among other things)
But: I usually feel safer and more on equal footing with bipoc knitters than with white cis women, both online and offline, even without talking about the hurt we experience respectively. (I hope this doesn't come across as some form of chasing. I know that can be a thin line.)
Jo! Thank you for your kind, gentle, reassuring and understanding words. I adore the gentle caution and care you put into your reply. Thank you. You are right, I did not feel like, want to publish a post like this for so many different reasons. But I am a bit shaken and scared by what is happening around and felt the need to speak out, however small my voice is. Thank you for telling me about pufidoknits. Such ELEGANT designs and I am so mesmerized by their Procreate drawings too.
One thing I noticed about your replies was your hesitation bc "others experienced worse". I'm not quite sure what you're thinking of, but I dare say this:
I got harassed by a white cis woman in a toilet and then beaten up by 3 guards at a *yarn festival* last year to the point where I had a concussion. They also had the audacity to press charges against me bc I defended myself. (The charges were dropped)
But you know what? That doesn't make your experience of racism in knitting spaces any less. It doesn't make me want to *know* about it any less. There are things you go through as a non white immigrant that I never will and vice versa. There are things we both don't experience that Black knitters do, cis *and* trans. But I think that talking about this, about our experiences, the differences and the similarities is what makes us stronger, because we get tools to understand what is happening to us, around is and also through us. We can un-poison ourselves by that, bit by bit, and form bonds that are stronger than if we stay silent for fear of taking up too much space or being impolite (at least that's what makes me nervous sometimes, including right now).
This was quite a bit bolder than my last one, but I hope it only serves to embolden you ❤️🔥
Jo, it breaks my heart to hear what happened to you, but knowing/hearing/noticing trans peoples lives everywhere, I cannot act surprised. I have interacted with a handful in the knitting world as well and I have sensed the caution with which they approach things. I hope you have recovered completely physically, at least. My goal in writing this piece was to mainly highlight the assumptions made about a person just looking at them and the potential harm it could cause. And a dear hope that kindness would replace those assumptions eventually. Like you rightly pointed out, I too felt speaking up about my experience is the only way.
While doing this, I have to firmly place myself somewhere in the spectrum of privilege: has privileges, quite not marginalized, sometimes misunderstood. My hesitation is mainly about how to make that clear. I do want to occupy my space but hopefully not stepping on toes.
But Jo, I did not quite realize that it will make people open up about their own experiences and we do the work together like you said, bit by bit, one conversation at a time.
No nothing you have said / will say would make me think about you are “impolite”. Thank you for being the warm and gentle soul you are and caring about what I do here.
I did hesitate a lot before sharing this. Thank you for noticing and acknowledging that it took a lot. Thank you, I am loving how it turned out. Currently I am waiting for the pattern to be returned by the tech editor. Hopefully there isn't a lot of rework. 😅
I have been followed around so many yarn stores. One would actually take the yard I removed from its home but carefully replaced checked as if I hurt the yearn. I’ve been ignored, and belittled. After several lonely knitting retreats I no longer attend. I have no idea what it is about me that causes this attitude. I’m extremely shy,maybe that’s what causes it?
My heart aches to hear about these experiences, especially when you say they are repeated. Yes in general, an understanding of our own personality and preferences helps us to move in different spaces. But that understanding should only be towards helping yourself face potential situations confidently. As @Sandra Hawkinson below said rightly, keep being you. We need you exactly as who you are.
I also don’t do well in social situations like retreats and in-person classes. I take a long time to figure out the group dynamics but I never feel comfortable. I think I give off a vibe that indicates how uneasy I am and that gives others a feeling that I don’t fit in — exactly how I feel I don’t or probably don’t fit in. Perhaps you and I ought to assume different personas and approach the encounters as beast knitters and mansplaining experts?
So sorry to hear that is your general experience. But I suspect from your last sentence that you could be hilarious when you want to? :) I am already imagining various situations where I can play "beast knitter" in my head. I really hope you find a comfortable circle to enjoy the wonders of sitting and stitching together.
I think so too. :)) If you had talked about "beast knitters" to me in person, say in a knitting group, then I would have added a bit to it and then you would add some more and we might have a whole script ready for a completely pointless play, out of nowhere. And that is what a knitting group should feel like, isn't it? Sit and stitch for a bit, talk without fearing judgement and go home a little lighter maybe?
Your experience with the public library and some of your students totally tracks with my experiences the several times I decided to try out a knitting group or guild. To me knitting and crocheting feel creative and full of endless possibilities! About 15 years ago I was invited to join a small group who knit each Saturday afternoon in a local coffee shop. It was wonderful! We all shared the same excitement and joy in knitting. However, over the course of a year or so, more and more people joined us, and the more dominant personalities took over. Group dynamics shifted toward socializing while knitting rather than talking about knitting. I stopped going. Fortunately there are many wonderful knitters like you, Kavitha, I now meet online. Truly grateful! 💖
Linda, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I am truly sorry for anyone who feels left out from these wonderful creative spaces. I do carry hope in my heart that we will evolve to be more empathetic and welcoming towards everyone.
Thank you for sharing this. It’s shameful that you’re met with anything but kindness and an assumption of competence - especially when you share the kindness, skill, and beauty we need in this world. Double thank you for not giving up or giving in. I’m a huge fan!
Wow! I speak, I know from a place of white privilege. However, as the general population does seem to have its issues with me. Please realize their issues are their issues not yours. Keep being you, keep sharing your gifts. Value the people who value you. Don’t waste time worrying about people who don’t. Self reflection is important, but once the reason is obvious - ignore them. Well, of course, unless they escalate toward violence.
I hesitated a lot before writing this one, because I thought some people who have faced worse might open up. Thank you for your kind and reassuring words towards these other commentors. I am grateful for voices like yours.
Thank you for telling me and others your story. I had never thought about a hobby /craft place being neutral. How sad that we now have to. I always thought we are all there for the love of the art.
Thank you for your understanding and kind words Natalie. I only hoped to spread some awareness by sharing my experience. Yes for the love of art! ❤️ I believe it would continue to bring more of us together.
It happens and it shouldn’t- that kind of exclusion is wrong. Sadly not all knitters or crocheters are nice and some are racists. I often knit at my LYS and those of us who are sitting and knitting always greet whoever walks in and so does the owner.
Thank you Peggy. And I can tell you, even the smallest welcoming gesture from 'regulars' at the LYS makes a huge difference to the hesitant, unsure ones.
I’t saddens me to hear you’ve experienced these things but I’m not naive enough to be surprised.
The only people who decry things “getting political” are folks in the majority who don’t experience prejudice and don’t want others realities to cause them discomfort - the kind of discomfort that comes from realizing you benefit from white supremacy and classism. Hopefully what comes of all this is we stick together and lift each other up since there is room at the table for all of us!
Oh Alexa, thank you so much for your reassuring words. Like you know, it is not the worst that could have happened. And honestly I didn't want to dwell on it too much, for the love of knitting and all other goodness that exists. But with what's going on, I finally decided to share my position hoping it would help spread a bit of awareness.
I am so sorry that you have had these experiences in any part of life but even more so in your beloved knitting culture. From personal experience, you are a remarkable, encouraging teacher. You are modeling for others always. Keep being you and I will stand right with you. I am not an active user of social media so even “liking” this thread feels awkward because of the unacceptable behavior it highlights. Adding my red heart to your post and the wise comments added means my heart is with you and I hope my own behavior shows that in knitting circles and beyond. I am humbled that you shared your experience and want you to know you are cherished and respected for your gifts, patience and now, courage. Thank you for being my model.
Leah, thank you for your kind, gentle and such reassuring words. That's true, sometimes 'like' button does not feel appropriate. And like you said, it hurts a bit more when it happens around knitting culture. Anyone who wants part of this cozy world of sitting and stitching together while laughing and healing, should be welcomed with open hands and heart. That's my hope in sharing this, at least.
A reminder to make our knitting spaces friendly and kind. My LYS closed ( a big rent increase paired with an economy unfriendly to small businesses). I have found over the years that often yarn store regulars become very cliquish. I am a woman who looks like the knitters at the table, and am there to shop. I know from Black friends about the constant indignities they experience in yarn shops. My reminder to myself is to offer kindness to everyone I encounter in knitting spaces.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I hesitated a lot before writing this one. It is reassuring to hear some acknowledgement back from people who don't go through this themselves but are aware of the situation. Thank you!
Yes.
My (Black) sister-in-law would invite me to come with her to shop at a local yarn store. The staff wouldn’t follow her around when she was with a white woman. That store has since closed.
I am truly sorry to hear this seems to be the norm. I hope you and your SIL find better circumstances.
There are often multiple reasons for a store closing but being unfriendly to a whole group of people who knit can be a pretty big reason a store doesn’t survive. I live in an area (Metropolitan Washington DC) and I still hear stories from people who are African American, biracial, of Indian ancestry - in other words, visibly not White, being made to feel unwelcome in this town. My son who is biracial just told me another story about this town last week. I told him how ironic that it was this specific community because historically the town was settled by Quakers.
That sounds like a familiar scenario, unfortunately. Common comments friends have reported include “ that yarn may be too expensive”, “I thought Black women only crocheted” and so on.
You're correct, unkind isn't fine.
I teach art to elementary students. The other day a boy made an absolutely unacceptable racial comment in my room (a boy who himself needs lots of understanding due to his circumstances – thankfully my skilled administration will step in to support and guide him positively). As class was ending, I reinforced being always kind when a boy who recently moved from another country said 'Americans are mean.' My heart broke – no child should feel that way in our schools.
A mantra at our school is 'Be Kind,' but I'm going to make a poster for my art room that says 'Kindness First.' It puts a different spin on it. I'll share your personal experience of preconceived opinions to help illustrate this – your message will spread a little more, and a little more, and a little more...
Over the years I have learnt to direct the better part of my energy and attention to the younger people in my life rather than the others. It is hard work but also a privilege to reflect and grow alongside them. Thank you for the work you do. I am so humbled to know my story will play a little part in it. It is more than anything I could have asked for by writing this! Thank you.
❤️
This is why I always push back against the standard accepted wisdom that "all knitters are kind" Just because you share a hobby with someone it doesn't mean you share their values. Knitters are human with all of the traits that go along with that and sadly that means some knitters are racist, pure and simple. I like to think that eventually everyone will become, truly more inclusive but until then I don't think it benefits anyone to perpetuate this myth that all knitters are nice - the ones that aren't need to be told that.
Louise, thank you for speaking aloud about this. I truly appreciate how you regularly talk about so many of these things that seem so nice and harmless in the knitting world but are seriously harmful. Knitters are kind gets my goat too. I kept going to the first knitting group I mentioned for several years on and off. One of the scenes I would often witness is someone would offer a spare stitch marker or tapestry needle to someone else and refuse it to take it back, loudly protesting "Knitters are kind!" 🫣
I know what you mean. It almost feels as though if you have to keep repeatedly saying something then it might not be as true as you think 😂 Kindness can happen without it being an external performance or a kind of badge of honour.
Exactly! 💯✨
Every yarn shop has its culture and even cliques. I say that as a 73 yo cis white woman in middle America. I have felt unwelcome is yarn shops. I’m sorry you have that experience as an obviously highly competent teacher of yarn crafting.
Thank you for your kind words. I see what you mean by cliques. I have noticed those too. Not everyone is immediately welcome. I hope you find comfortable places to work on what you love.
Dear Kavitha,
1: thank you so much for sharing this -- to me as a (white) transfemme it signals you're aware of what is going on, even if you're usually not talking about it here; that you're not shoving it into the corner of your mind, and to me, this feels safer
2: I hate that you feel compelled, that you too, are affected by this so much, that it is necessary to pull those vulnerable parts of yourself into the open.
If you like, I am sending a warm and gentle, cautious embrace across the sea to you.
I have many thoughts about care and attentiveness in knitting spaces, but tbh right now I am much too bitter and exhausted to write them down.
Let me just say that it's not an accident that I know exactly three transfeminine knitters (one of them is designer pufidoknits from Istanbul, they make gorgeous brioche among other things)
But: I usually feel safer and more on equal footing with bipoc knitters than with white cis women, both online and offline, even without talking about the hurt we experience respectively. (I hope this doesn't come across as some form of chasing. I know that can be a thin line.)
Jo! Thank you for your kind, gentle, reassuring and understanding words. I adore the gentle caution and care you put into your reply. Thank you. You are right, I did not feel like, want to publish a post like this for so many different reasons. But I am a bit shaken and scared by what is happening around and felt the need to speak out, however small my voice is. Thank you for telling me about pufidoknits. Such ELEGANT designs and I am so mesmerized by their Procreate drawings too.
💜
Dear Kavitha,
One thing I noticed about your replies was your hesitation bc "others experienced worse". I'm not quite sure what you're thinking of, but I dare say this:
I got harassed by a white cis woman in a toilet and then beaten up by 3 guards at a *yarn festival* last year to the point where I had a concussion. They also had the audacity to press charges against me bc I defended myself. (The charges were dropped)
But you know what? That doesn't make your experience of racism in knitting spaces any less. It doesn't make me want to *know* about it any less. There are things you go through as a non white immigrant that I never will and vice versa. There are things we both don't experience that Black knitters do, cis *and* trans. But I think that talking about this, about our experiences, the differences and the similarities is what makes us stronger, because we get tools to understand what is happening to us, around is and also through us. We can un-poison ourselves by that, bit by bit, and form bonds that are stronger than if we stay silent for fear of taking up too much space or being impolite (at least that's what makes me nervous sometimes, including right now).
This was quite a bit bolder than my last one, but I hope it only serves to embolden you ❤️🔥
Jo, it breaks my heart to hear what happened to you, but knowing/hearing/noticing trans peoples lives everywhere, I cannot act surprised. I have interacted with a handful in the knitting world as well and I have sensed the caution with which they approach things. I hope you have recovered completely physically, at least. My goal in writing this piece was to mainly highlight the assumptions made about a person just looking at them and the potential harm it could cause. And a dear hope that kindness would replace those assumptions eventually. Like you rightly pointed out, I too felt speaking up about my experience is the only way.
While doing this, I have to firmly place myself somewhere in the spectrum of privilege: has privileges, quite not marginalized, sometimes misunderstood. My hesitation is mainly about how to make that clear. I do want to occupy my space but hopefully not stepping on toes.
But Jo, I did not quite realize that it will make people open up about their own experiences and we do the work together like you said, bit by bit, one conversation at a time.
No nothing you have said / will say would make me think about you are “impolite”. Thank you for being the warm and gentle soul you are and caring about what I do here.
Kavitha, Thank you for having the courage and trust in your audience to share this. Also, your new cardigan is so pretty.
I did hesitate a lot before sharing this. Thank you for noticing and acknowledging that it took a lot. Thank you, I am loving how it turned out. Currently I am waiting for the pattern to be returned by the tech editor. Hopefully there isn't a lot of rework. 😅
I have been followed around so many yarn stores. One would actually take the yard I removed from its home but carefully replaced checked as if I hurt the yearn. I’ve been ignored, and belittled. After several lonely knitting retreats I no longer attend. I have no idea what it is about me that causes this attitude. I’m extremely shy,maybe that’s what causes it?
My heart aches to hear about these experiences, especially when you say they are repeated. Yes in general, an understanding of our own personality and preferences helps us to move in different spaces. But that understanding should only be towards helping yourself face potential situations confidently. As @Sandra Hawkinson below said rightly, keep being you. We need you exactly as who you are.
I also don’t do well in social situations like retreats and in-person classes. I take a long time to figure out the group dynamics but I never feel comfortable. I think I give off a vibe that indicates how uneasy I am and that gives others a feeling that I don’t fit in — exactly how I feel I don’t or probably don’t fit in. Perhaps you and I ought to assume different personas and approach the encounters as beast knitters and mansplaining experts?
So sorry to hear that is your general experience. But I suspect from your last sentence that you could be hilarious when you want to? :) I am already imagining various situations where I can play "beast knitter" in my head. I really hope you find a comfortable circle to enjoy the wonders of sitting and stitching together.
Well, I think I’m hilarious!
I think so too. :)) If you had talked about "beast knitters" to me in person, say in a knitting group, then I would have added a bit to it and then you would add some more and we might have a whole script ready for a completely pointless play, out of nowhere. And that is what a knitting group should feel like, isn't it? Sit and stitch for a bit, talk without fearing judgement and go home a little lighter maybe?
I’ve tried not being me. It never works. I am who I am.
❤️
Your experience with the public library and some of your students totally tracks with my experiences the several times I decided to try out a knitting group or guild. To me knitting and crocheting feel creative and full of endless possibilities! About 15 years ago I was invited to join a small group who knit each Saturday afternoon in a local coffee shop. It was wonderful! We all shared the same excitement and joy in knitting. However, over the course of a year or so, more and more people joined us, and the more dominant personalities took over. Group dynamics shifted toward socializing while knitting rather than talking about knitting. I stopped going. Fortunately there are many wonderful knitters like you, Kavitha, I now meet online. Truly grateful! 💖
Linda, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I am truly sorry for anyone who feels left out from these wonderful creative spaces. I do carry hope in my heart that we will evolve to be more empathetic and welcoming towards everyone.
Thank you for sharing this. It’s shameful that you’re met with anything but kindness and an assumption of competence - especially when you share the kindness, skill, and beauty we need in this world. Double thank you for not giving up or giving in. I’m a huge fan!
Thank you so much for your kind and reassuring words. They keep me going.
Wow! I speak, I know from a place of white privilege. However, as the general population does seem to have its issues with me. Please realize their issues are their issues not yours. Keep being you, keep sharing your gifts. Value the people who value you. Don’t waste time worrying about people who don’t. Self reflection is important, but once the reason is obvious - ignore them. Well, of course, unless they escalate toward violence.
I hesitated a lot before writing this one, because I thought some people who have faced worse might open up. Thank you for your kind and reassuring words towards these other commentors. I am grateful for voices like yours.
Thank you for telling me and others your story. I had never thought about a hobby /craft place being neutral. How sad that we now have to. I always thought we are all there for the love of the art.
Thank you for your understanding and kind words Natalie. I only hoped to spread some awareness by sharing my experience. Yes for the love of art! ❤️ I believe it would continue to bring more of us together.
It happens and it shouldn’t- that kind of exclusion is wrong. Sadly not all knitters or crocheters are nice and some are racists. I often knit at my LYS and those of us who are sitting and knitting always greet whoever walks in and so does the owner.
Thank you Peggy. And I can tell you, even the smallest welcoming gesture from 'regulars' at the LYS makes a huge difference to the hesitant, unsure ones.
I’t saddens me to hear you’ve experienced these things but I’m not naive enough to be surprised.
The only people who decry things “getting political” are folks in the majority who don’t experience prejudice and don’t want others realities to cause them discomfort - the kind of discomfort that comes from realizing you benefit from white supremacy and classism. Hopefully what comes of all this is we stick together and lift each other up since there is room at the table for all of us!
Oh Alexa, thank you so much for your reassuring words. Like you know, it is not the worst that could have happened. And honestly I didn't want to dwell on it too much, for the love of knitting and all other goodness that exists. But with what's going on, I finally decided to share my position hoping it would help spread a bit of awareness.
Thank you for sharing your experience so honestly.
❤️
I am so sorry that you have had these experiences in any part of life but even more so in your beloved knitting culture. From personal experience, you are a remarkable, encouraging teacher. You are modeling for others always. Keep being you and I will stand right with you. I am not an active user of social media so even “liking” this thread feels awkward because of the unacceptable behavior it highlights. Adding my red heart to your post and the wise comments added means my heart is with you and I hope my own behavior shows that in knitting circles and beyond. I am humbled that you shared your experience and want you to know you are cherished and respected for your gifts, patience and now, courage. Thank you for being my model.
Leah, thank you for your kind, gentle and such reassuring words. That's true, sometimes 'like' button does not feel appropriate. And like you said, it hurts a bit more when it happens around knitting culture. Anyone who wants part of this cozy world of sitting and stitching together while laughing and healing, should be welcomed with open hands and heart. That's my hope in sharing this, at least.
I hate that this is STILL going on. And that you still have to encounter spaces and feel less than welcome as a teacher or as a customer.
Thank you for feeling this with me. Much needed and appreciated.